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February 03, 2008



Clinton is disliked by a lot of folks for a wide variety of reasons. She is a Marxist and would socialize everything. But for me that is not disliking. That is disagreement. I dislike her because she is (your favorite subject) a pathological liar. This is different from disagreement. She goes through a lifetime claiming she is named after Sir Edmond Hillary who was a completely unknown New Zealand beekeeper when he summited Everest 6 years after Clinton was born. Rose law firm billing documents are subpoenaed in the whitewater matter and they are missing and they show up on the second floor of the white house years later and are in plain view and are found by a cleaning person. Gadzooks! How did those get there? And she is never pressed to explain? She gets away with just smiling? Today her position on this war flies 180 degrees in the face of what she was saying in October of 02. A President cannot do that. She will be your parties nominee and she will not be elected and you will be surprised. She is fatally flawed. She is no more electable than Kerry, Gore, Dukakis, Mondale et al.


Welcome Back -
I always appreciate your comments - especially when you're teasing me She is no more electable than Al Gore?
What I found more interesting is the fact that C.W. (Conventional Wisdom) was saying that women don't like Hillary, when, at that point, women overwhelmingly liked Clinton.
If telling fibs about who she was named after so annoys you how can you begin to vote for McCain or Romney. She may do a 180, but those guys do 360's all the time.


Hey, I'm a woman, and I like Hillary, and will vote for her. She is smart, disciplined and deeply progressive. I can't wait to see her in the White House, channeling her inner Eleanor Roosevelt (who incidentally was mocked a lot too.) I thought Hill beat Obama hands down in the recent debate. Obama's talk is cheap, vague--"we can bring our troops home" etc. etc--what does that exactly mean? His stance on health care mandates undermines our chances of achieving universal health care. He's all talk and no action--he criticizes Hillary for taking positions on votes he ducked. He supported Holy Joe Lieberman, the Republican, over the progressive Ned Lamont in Ct. And he's voted exactly like Hillary since arriving in the Senate. Where was his passionate speech against the war on the Senate floor? How did he show leadership against war funding. Please. He's cautious, and as political as the rest of them.

Meanwhile, it's interesting to see the Ted and Caroline Kennedy, not to mention Mariah, try to make themselves politically relevant again. Clinton's so-called baggage is a lifetime's worth of political associations and connections. The serious Kennedys, children of Bobby, support Hillary.

Obama is the new kid on the block. He's inexperienced and way ahead of himself and represents an opportunity for a lot of people, no doubt Ted Kennedy included plus a lot of the hedgers in the financial industry. They think they can run him if he's elected. It's an interesting attempt at a power grab among the non-Clintonian groups on the left.
This is a Presidential race, not a high school popularity context, and I am embarrassed for my gender when women are encouraged to get snarky about Hillary.

farmer mark

Thank you for this comment. I hadn't even known that Obama had supported Lieberman -- it makes me even more comfortable at having voted for Hill this afternoon.

But I think we should be frank about acknowledging Clinton's drawbacks, including the lawyerly hairsplitting (admittedly sometimes hard to distinguish from very finely nuanced thinking), the take no prisoners approach to the political process (I agree that her health plan promises universality in a way that Obama's does not, but David Brooks's recounting in today's Times of how she dealt with an earlier less comprehensive proposal was, if accurate, quite dismaying), the uncomfortably undefined role Bill will have in this administration and the danger of repeats of some of the awful political decisions of the last time around, and the lowering of the tone of the primary campaigns, largely the Clintons' fault. Hillary is superb intellectually, unbelievably savvy about policy, and pretty solid in her policy choices, but has repeatedly erred politically, is a poor and uninspired mass communicator, and is going to be a tough sell to broad swaths of the public. You should sign up to campaign for her, as you are persuasive in her behalf.

When you do so, maybe you could be a tad less "snarky" about Obama? He is gifted, shows considerable aplomb, and I thought bested Hillary on a number of points in the California debate, most prominently in my recollection a well considered and far more coherent position on drivers' licenses for undocumented immigrants. He's got undeniable integrity. Anyone who thinks they'll be running this new kid on the block if he is elected is going to be sorely disappointed. He is clearly in control of and has a strong sense of himself. He obviously lacks Clinton's depth on a number of issues, but he strikes me as way ahead of plenty of other recent presidents, and perhaps less likely than the Clintons were to betray progressive principles once in power (recalling Haitian boat people, Don't Ask Don't Tell, welfare reform and some other jewels). Democrats should be actively working to make sure that his gifts are fully involved in the campaign and government leadership going forward if he is not the nominee.


Excellent points in your comment Bustard. Excellent. Additionally, Obama was not in the Senate when the war was debated and anyone unaware of that fact has not taken a good look at him. I believe him to be a fine person with unimpeachable personal character. The 'goofy' things coming from that church he has associated himself with is going to become a target of opportunity should he make it to the general election.

farmer mark

Rick, if you are referring to the immediately preceding post, I am not Bustard, though I admire him greatly.


My bad. Good comments though. I am his nemesis from a parallel universe. I was patrolling this quadrant looking for intelligent life forms and he was the only spark I found.


Great Comments, particularly those which speak of the brilliance of the Bustard, and of the admiration which he so richly deserves.

Thank You

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