Protein Wisdom

I'm a bit fearful about getting involved in the latest Jeff Goldstein uproar, which of course means that I really have no choice but to do so.

The lastest brouhaha regarding the author of the blog Protein Wisdom, concerns some totally despicable comments made by a troll from the left.

This has caused enormous amounts of outrage from the right.(here, here and here are examples) The question is whether this outrage is in any way sincere, or is it as manufactured as Bush's playacting when he appeared to be angry about the New York Times' "disgraceful" article concerning SWIFT and international banking.

Blackfive, a very conservative blog, is one of those taking the lead on this, describing the situation as one in which the troll "has repeatedly and quite disturbing levied DEATH THREATS against Jeff's 2 year old child." Another wrote how the troll "made a stream of death threats against Goldstein's two-year-old son." In fact, the troll made no death threats. None. All of the quotes and links that these guys refer you to, are hideous statements to the effect of 'if something atrocious happens to your kid, it would not bother me one bit. I wouldn't mind if your kid was killed." This is not the same as saying that ' I want to kill your kid.'  It's disgusting, but not threatening. It's hard to tell if this is a sincere, albeit hysterical, overreaction, or an attempt to manipulate their readers by essentially lying to them. Last week, Morgan was really inappropriate when she said 'If Bill Keller were to be tried and found guilty of treason and then sent to the gas chamber, I wouldn't have a problem with it." But she did not threaten his life.

Blackfive then ratchets it up a notch by giving the name of the troll, as well as the name, address, phone number and contact name of the troll's employer. Blackfive explains that she contacted the employer, and kindly publishes the information in case her readers would like to contact them as well.  Essentially they are trying to get the troll fired because they hate her comments. I agree that her comments are hateful, but not nearly as hateful as trying to get the troll fired.

If Mr. Goldstein had really been upset about the comments, why did he not ban her IP address? Instead, his friends are lobbying to have her fired.

I do not know the dates on which the troll made her comments, but I suspect that they might be retaliation. Not that the comments are acceptable, but it has to be noted that while the right is fond of characterizing Jeff Goldstein as "the very insightful conservative blogger", he also is a particularly vicious one. After a contentious argument with a blogger from the left, Goldstein thought it perfectly appropriate to "out" his anonymity, as well as his wife's. He proceeded to give details of the man's employer. A commenter of Goldstein's made a sexually abusive comment about the man's young child.

This kind of commenting is despicable. Destroying someone's anonymity is unacceptable. But trying to get someone fired because of despicable comments is even worse.

UPDATE:

Whle I was writing this, the troller resigned from her job. After speaking to Jeff Goldstein,  Blackfive  chose to contact the troller's employer, and published details so that others could do the same. The troller's life has now been in fact threatened, even though, she never threatened anyone. She has lost her job.  Blackfive will soon be changing its name to Brown Shirts.

Comments

[chris keller]

Its funny how you don't include some of the comments made. Here, let me help you.
"Ooh. Two year old boy. Sounds hot. You live in Colorado, I see. Hope no one Jon-Benets your baby."
"I reiterate: If some nutcase kidnapped your child tomorrow and did to her what was done to your fellow Coloradan, Jon-Benet Ramsey, I wouldn’t give a damn."

Nah, that's not threatening.(End Sarcasm) Instead of spending the majority of you rant condemning these despicable remarks you justify it by saying the other guys do it too. The power of liberal double think never ceases to amaze me.

"The troller's life has now been in fact threatened"

Do you have proof of that statement. Didn't think so. Giving you benifit of the doubt, some wing nut might have emailed her something "nasty" (as your hero puts it). However, none of the remarks she left on her blog are in no way "threatening". I realize though that you must make your liberal comrade out to be the victim, after all thats you ultimate goal: a country of victims that need your superior "intellect" to guide us to utopia.

Also, I kind of agree with you that she shouldn't loss her job over this; however, if you are STUPID enough to make these comments using you govenment/work email address (which effectively makes her comments theirs), then you shouldn't be in charge of instructing students at a major Univeristy.

By the way, I'd like to get on board with the Democrats, but seeing how the party has been hijacked by socialist geniuses like yourself, that day may never come.

Cheers

[deb]

Blackfive is a she?!?!?!

[demonsurfer]

Seems the Professor has made clear her resignation is not an acknowledgement of her wrongdoing anyway.. “The point of resigning is that it is something I was thinking of doing anyway.” ..sad.

[demonsurfer]

"Essentially they are trying to get the troll fired because they hate her comments. I agree that her comments are hateful, but not nearly as hateful as trying to get the troll fired."

err.. I wonder what kind of world you exist in if you think that threatening a 2-year-old child sexually (or inferring a sexual threat) is not as bad as attempting to get someone fired for threatening a child.. particularly when their job is teaching young people.

[paulzummo]

I don't know what's more pathetic. This pathetic woman making threats against a two-year old, or you trying to make excuses for it. Man you people are pathetic.

[bbbustard]

Wow! Thanks for all your comments.
1. I'm sure that I was completely wrong to type she when referring to froggy at blackfive. My apologies for the mistake.
2. There seems to be some constant need to be outraged amongst a lot on the right, which I really don't understand. What the troller did was wrong and stupind. But she did not threaten the life of a child. (Sorry Chris, but to say "I don't care if your drop dead tomorrow is not a threat.)
3. Maybe it's something technical that I don't understand, but if Goldstein was so upset, why didn't he ban her?
4. I make no excuses for the despicable nature of her comments, I merely don't see why she should be fired for them. I thought conservatives used to believe in free speech.
5. Why does my position on this issue makes me a socialist? Not a full fledged Communist?
Thanks

[aristides]

bbustard: Jeff doesn't ban commenters for disagreeing with him. He only bans someone for egregious behavior.

I believe it was a commenter--not Blackfive--who added the address. Blackfive deleted it. You're right, it was uncalled for. He also readily deleted Deb's return email address at her request because she felt uncomfortable.

I'm not aware Jeff told anyone to fire Deb.

I agree with you, much of the hoo-ha on some of the blogs was over the top. There's something about mobs, apprently.

Jeff says he didn't purposily 'out' that blogger's address. I can't recall the exact circumstances, but they're in the PW archive and can ostensibly be checked. I suppose you can either accept his explanation or reject it.

regards

[somebody]

i am discouraged by the lack of condemnation from the leftwing blogs i frequent...

this woman's comments are beyond the pale....she should be disavowed

what i will say, on behalf of the left, is that there was not a rousing chorus cheering her on...

but that is feeble in comparison to what should have been done...

these bloggers i frequent and have respect for: greenwald, atrios, armado...

i've heard no outrage and i've lost some respect..

if i am wrong and they did decry the postings, i stand corrected...

but lunatics have no corner on party affiliation and we should condemn it from our own as we do from others...

[aristides]

Looking at the events of today makes you realize how easy it is to get caught up in groupthink and mobs and how difficult it is to take a stand, especially when it pits you against those you regard as allies. The silence on the left is offest by some pretty serious silliness on the right.

At the end of the day, you have to be able to look yourself in the mirror and know you stood for what you regarded as right. It ain't always easy.

[Dennis]

She claims she quit her job voluntarily, therefore she is not a victim.

BTW, universities typically do not fire professors just because right wing bloggers ask them to.

[marcus]

"Blackfive then ratchets it up a notch by giving the name of the troll, as well as the name, address, phone number and contact name of the troll's employer."

Uh, I hate to burst your bubble, but Frisch gave out most of that info in the PW threads, plus her blog openly made references to them.

[bbbustard]

Thanks Marcus,
And if she had already published her name, her employer's name, and phone and fax numbers, as well as the names of those to whom she reported - then I am wrong, and apologize. If you are arguing that one could ferret out this info on the web, you are making an entirely different argument, and one which I find untenable. I'm pretty unsophisticated at these kinds of things, but I bet I could find all kinds of personal info about Mr Goldstein, and his family, should I wish to do so. It's actually not so tricky to make distinctions in arguments like this one - there is this thing called the Golden Rule, for example. Sadly, Mr Goldstein thinks a rule like that should not apply to him. Sadly for all of us, whose conversations he debases.

[marcus]

"If you are arguing that one could ferret out this info on the web, you are making an entirely different argument, and one which I find untenable."

Well, if that were the case, I would tend to agree with you. But when a troll gives her name, her academic affiliation, and other pertinent info in the comment thread(s), then all bets are off. The only "ferreting" Froggy did was research the posts Frisch had put on her own blog to find the info. It wasn't difficult; I found them myself with hardly any effort at all.

I think it's woth repeating, however, that had Frisch kept the scope of her insults directed at Jeff himself, or his commenters, we wouldn't be having this conversation. I was a real-time witness to most of the exchanges and I have to say she pretty much brought this on herself.

[BeatNik]

Dude, I am a liberal, and the fact that you are in any way defending this whackbag makes me sick to my stomache. When you start making excuses for total a$$holes like that just because they are on the same side of the political fence as you.. that's when you've officially become a douchebag.

[bbbustard]

Aristides - possibly I'm not understanding you in regard to banning, but I thought the one thing we all agreed on was that this was egregious behavior.
I have to defer to Marcus on how the information about Frisch was developped, as I was not reading PW while it happened. I do know that Goldstein's outing of the other blogger was done deliberately,intententionally, and repeatedly.
I wish I could be clearer that I am not defending her acts in any way. I totally condemn them. They were outrageous. In my post, I was only questioning what seemed to me an effort to have her fired because of those comments.

[rwilymz]

You are quite possibly the most grasping rationalizer I've encounter this year.

There's a significant difference between saying "I wouldn't mind if your kid was killed" and stating "if Keller were to be tried for treason and executed..."

An individual does not have the capacity to "try" and "execute"; an individual DOES have the capacity to kill.

You aren't trying to squirm around the definition of "is" are you?

[Somebody]

Frisch was wrong. Left, right, inbetween....doesn't matter. Why can't anyone say that, plain and simple??

Is Jeff a pig?...I think so. Does that excuse or explain Frisch? No. We've all come across someone similar at some time or other on the net. Do you roll around in the gutter and whimper, "But Ma, the other guys were doin' it too!"

Just kick her to the curb.

Wondering if a two-year old is hot and saying you don't care if a two-year old is murdered is wrong. No ifs, ands or buts--or excuses.

Cut her loose and move on. Any explanation pales in comparison to her comments. I am far left and she sucks. Period.

She was wrong...any blah, blah, blah is a distraction. Just say so and leave it at that.